third… looks cool. similar to what ive been wanting to put together…
it’s interesting to see how Christians are indoctrinated at young ages to live for Christ without truly understanding what being a Christian is – it is also interesting to note that this is how other religious parents recruit their kids to become killers of Christians in third world countries – the indocrination of faith at young ages is very powerful.
thats interesting
I like that the kids are so dedicated but not sure what this film is trying to portray about Christian culture, it makes me think this film will be another one portraying how people think christians are crazy.
a little bit scary… heavy indoctrination seems like brain washing- I know I went to Word of Life for many years, and mostly loved it, but at times they yelled fire and hell and brimstone and scared kids into repenting. Now if there’s followup, maybe that approach is ok sometimes… but it wasn’t always. and the way they make it sound like an army makes it sound like it’s an approach by too much force and not enough trusting in God to do His will His way not ours… I don’t know, maybe I’m being too judgemental! lol
oh i am : P
i for one do not agree with this movie. sure, i haven’t seen it, but from what i’ve seen from the trailers on the site, this “camp” kinda scares me. that lady wants our kids “committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as they are to Islam.” the whole program seems geared to a militant theme than anything else. she alludes to them arming kids with grenades, so she arms kids with bibles…? exactly for what purpose? to what end? is this camp to train kids to use heavy-handed tactics for political/socioeconomic goals?
i hope and pray to God that this is not what this camp is soley about.
will download.
I think the idea is awesome, but I think I’ll wait till I see the film to decide
sounds like a good idea….if it has the right amount of moderation….im with the guy above….sounds kindof like brain washing….but on a more serious note – if sufjan is really gonna get to all fifty states, he shouldnt be wasting time making excerpts of the illinois album….i mean times running out…
[joshie]
bad idea.
simplythejosh you are right about sufjan. but on the other hand…if he can write 20 extra songs about freaking illinois, i think he will have no trouble making the last 48 states.
Sufjan Stevens is incredible.
That Jesus Camp.. aye. I don’t really see how that will bring about any good.
i am skeptical, especially considering who the directors are. this kind of scare-tactics-indoctrination is not what kids need to be taught — they need to be taught the gospel and grace.
i want my boys to find God in their own way. we share who God is to us, and what faith is. they so want to please me and their Dad, i wouldn’t want to put them in a position where they feel that obedience to us means following a program, especally where faith is concerned. i don’t think that they have the wisdom, and spiritual understanding to be a soldier yet, though they are forthcoming with the truth with their friends. i think this mandate to these young ones is a bit premature.
not sure what I think yet
you guys are just jealous that my state gets extra attention from sufjan.
on the movie…i dunno…this camp looks a little intense. when did christianity become about indoctrination and about polarization? i wasn’t aware jesus came down to gather his loyalists for war. he came to reach the sick, not the healthy. if this camp is really like the trailer makes it appear…then it’s just wrong. i’m sure the camp has all the best intentions…but…it just rubs me wrong all over.
we don’t need to change the world through a “war,” we don’t need to change the world through politics and economics. we need to change the world by going outside our comfort zone and just loving someone else and sharing god’s love with them. it’s really that simple.
aaah. the sweet sound of right-wing charismania…
I think as Christians we need to stop living on the war model…Jesus taught about love as the way to reach the people. Just as it is frustrating for most Muslims to see the militant extremists give their faith an awful face to the rest of the world, this disturbs the heck out of me.
thats different…
I think this Jesus Camp movie could be a good idea in theory. However, I feel like there are too many of us who genuinely want to try and change the common perception of Christians (“God’s army”. Christians-the people who are really good at leaving others out and judging them. the authors of the us vs. them mentality) to what it is supposed to be….loving to ALL people and living out the gospel the way Jesus said was the way to live it out. I hate to say it, but I think this movie may be another back-step for those of us who want to progress. To equate ourselves with the people in Palestine by saying that “their kids are learning how to throw bombs. we better get our kids ready for war too” is simply ignorant. Christ preached of a war of love. He did not advocate persuasion or gimmicks to get folks to follow Him. He was straight up. Another thing He never, ever did was segregate people. His group of disciples were a rag-tag group of guys who had no clue about Christ’s power and goals, really. They followed Him because they knew it was right. They met with people who hated them, people from their home town, people with different skin colors and maybe even different views. For us to say “Ok…either you’re with us or you’re not. Right now!” is ridiculous. What if the people are taking a minute to step back and really examine Jesus? What if the Spirit is working on them at the present time? Are we rushing the Spirit by having this panic-y mentality? Also, should we have a militant mentality? I think not. I think our mentality should be love and grace to all people….functioning in relationships we build with people of all skin colors, views, wallet sizes on the concrete truth that Christ loves them and wants to know them where they are. I wish someone would make a film about the overwhelming love that one community of believers shows to another group of people who didn’t ask for help but were in dire need of it. A group of people who feel loved and comfortable around Christ-followers….a group of people who don’t feel invaded upon. That’s sort of how I felt from watching this trailer. Helping people. Loving people. Preaching the true gospel. That would be much more helpful for the kingdom of God, in my opinion, than “Jesus Camp”.
hmm…
what DO i think?
I need to know God more and more…know who He is, understand His character, seek to be obedient to Him, love Him and others like He loves me (as if that were possible). I need to know what He wants me to do…I need to fulfill His desires for my life. I need to serve Him. I need to worship Him, glorify Him. I need to do that because it’s my purpose in life. I need to do that because Jesus sacrificed His life for mine. I need to do that because I accepted His gift of grace by faith.
If I try to do those things as they apply to every aspect of my life, I believe my children will follow. I think what Jesus Camp is trying to do is maybe a little scary if it involves 6 year olds…but without knowing the leader’s heart, and the hearts of the children, I can’t really say if it’s good or bad. My point is…I wouldn’t send my kids to something like that. As they get older and independent they can (and do) make their own decisions on how and if they will serve our Lord. Meanwhile I’ll try to provide an example of what God’s grace represents, and guide them as a loving Christian parent should (in my opinion) and trust God’s Holy Spirit to be their ever-present leader after they accept what Jesus did for them.
DC – the offer still stands if you want to park your rig out at our 3.4 acre property in the country when you visit Boise in Sept. :)
33But if anyone denies me here on earth, I will deny that person before my Father in heaven. 34″Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, I came to bring a sword. 35I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Matthew 10:33-35, NLT)
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; (Ephesians 6:10-16, ESV)
..sounds like war to me..
the movie seems a bit crazy. but maybe it was just all the spooky music in the background on the website. i think that this will either show people what is so amazing about being a christian or completely freak them out. let’s hope for the first.
considering that this camp is attempting ‘to bring America back to Christ’ when it was never found by Him is pretty crazy talk. This is an attempt for a Christian nation, which won’t happen until Christ returns. In other words, a good idea gone bad.
i wish ic ould watch it – how come it won’t ocme to vegas?
what do YOU think about it? that’s what we all want to know.
Hmm…I believe that verse, “A little child shall lead them.”
Yet, the ways kids usually teach us are through their natural honesty and such–not through trained methods. Do 6-year-olds even have the mind to comprehend things like prophecy, much less lead in it?
okay. i watched the videos and i need to edit my comment. this looks scary and, well, wrong.
Looks neat – nice CD by the way.
But I haven’t seen the videos yet, and the person above me looks a little scared. So I’ll watch them and comment again later.
I think that it is a good cause! As long as it is taught a true Christian way then I don’t see a problem w/ it. “Train up a child in the way it should go.” Habits are hard to break and this is a good habit…. Jesus.
B
Seems like a good principle, but they seem surprisingly lacking in joy.
I agree with alexalexalex1
so it’s not really playing everywhere…too bad
“it is also interesting to note that this is how other religious parents recruit their kids to become killers of Christians in third world countries “
by some guy named dacopenhagen. one of the first comments on this blog.
indoctrination is bad, sir, because it teaches people that people in middle eastern countries-especially those claiming the religion of islam-are hellbent on killing christians.
the evil of indoctrination is that we’re actually killing THEM.
dave, as to what i think of the movie. i don’t like the war metaphor, but i think the war against the enemy will be won in teaching children love and mercy and justice, not marginalism for those of different backgrounds.
bad idea.
christians need to quit fighting for legalism and political power. the losing the “war” against complacency and hate by trying to hurdle their socioeconomic hindrances in society.
clint
I don’t know how I feel about this, but I don’t see how much good can come from it… and I agree with dacopen about how indoctrination at young ages can be a very powerful, yet dangerous thing…
It’s kinda scary. Jesus is lord of the world. Not of america. It almost seemed like they were rallying an army against all the other religions in the world. The last time that happened was during the crusades. I’m split.
I think on September 15 I’m going to have to drive up I-35 to pay a little visit to the Magnolia.
Craig.
I love B movies.
I realize that you are a busy guy and probly don’t have time to answer this, but it’s worth a shot. I am a senior in high school and and i am going to to lead woship when i get out. How did you get started leading worship? Do you have any advice?
Jesus was never about jihad or war… it was about love
hey David… crowder… i saw the trailer for this movie and i don’t know what to think of it. cuz when was the last time you saw some kids so crazy for Jesus. it does seem a bit extreme, but Jesus is extreme. and this whole program seems like AAAAH!!! CHOOSE OR DIE!!!! but Jesus is about love… so its like hmm… not sure.
didn’t get chance to read EVERY comment left here…so i might be repeating someone. but i think this movie takes on a more aggressive approach…honestly, i think it’s in danger of affirming the notion that christians are crazy and extreme. i’m kinda curious as to “why” the movie was made. i mean, if it was done for evangelical purposes, it might not do too well. even for me, being a christian, the trailer and the sound bites sorta rub me the wrong way. i’m all for the young generation being convicted and committed to live a life for God, but i don’t know…these kids scare me. haha…no, really, they kinda do. well, we’ll see how it all plays out.
huh……interesting.
I’m astounded at the “Christian Right” and their obsession with influence through government, which was something Jesus seemed to care nothing about.
I live on the University of Houston Campus, and after seeing the trailer to this movie I am inspired to do a documentary on what turns college-aged students away from church. Or Christianity in general. Of course, the obvious answer is the amount of hypocrites … but during the past 3 years in college, i feel that it’s more. If i were to put the documentary on Youtube, i wonder if DCB would put it on their website.
i don’t think Jesus was a political leader. nor do i think politics, laws, and other such things are going to change people’s hearts.
wow that is interesting…watching the trailor reminded me of the religious network channels where men are up there screaming and everyone in the crowd is too…it makes me doubt that its authentic…but who am i to judge that
wow, at first glance without looking farther than the first page on the site it looks ok than when looking into it it looks as though its a little exctreme. one of the girls was quoted saying at age 11 she feels that the only churches GOd goes to are the kind that shout and are loud and say amen…and also the radio guy says they teach george bush to be a holy man?
I think that is a fantastic album, and Sufjan Stevens folks my face off.
Crowder – when is the next cd coming out? We need more music. I’ve worn out all your old ones.
growing up is an indoctrination – most kids will either belive what their parents do, or rebel and go totally opposite. may as well teach kids the truth.
this movie will be hugely provocative though
kinda scares me.
i think that a house divided cannot stand. most Christians these days will split a church over the color of the pew cushions. i don’t know why people even begin to wonder what makes others dislike Christianity. when we learn that all Christians are to follow Christ rather than bicker with each other about how Baptists are right or Pentecostals are right or anything else, maybe then we can make a little headway. all this arguing about whether a movie is of God or not and all this judging that for ourselves is a bit ridiculous. we’re all part of the body of Christ, but yet we fight all these wars against ourselves about theology and doctrines. “turn your eyes upon Jesus; look full in His wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.”
14Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; (Hebrews 12:14-15, ESV)
das crazy. I don’t know how much of what is going on is the Spirit and how much of it is emotion. Having worked at a Christian camp for 2 years, we tend to want to engage the spiritual side of things before we engage the kids’ emotions…because we all know how many childhood commitments were “in the moment.” We’ll just have to wait and see…
it sounds eerily similar to the Taliban. I was touched by the display of emotions in it – I remember how expansive my emotions were as a child. they were raw and undeveloped, blurred with reality. I can see that being a problem for them in the future. thanks for posting this – you’re my new source for current events in Christian culture. – julie
One of the lines that especially struck me was “they are not only preparing for Jesus to come back, but to take back America for Christ.”
Did Christ ask us to take back America for Him? Does he want America? Ok, I am just kinda being funny, but so many times we think we know what God has in mind when perhaps we haven’t spent enough time with Him to know or haven’t even asked.
In Micah it says “God has commanded for me to do what is good, show mercy and to walk humbly with Him.”
I am still working on this, when I have that down, I will see where he wants me to go next.
This looks really good and really interesting. Im really looking forward to it. God Bless
This. . . scares me more than seeing planes flying into buildings – christians sinking to the level of guerilla, islamo-fascists tactics.
I am skeptical to say the least. i am not at all against children catching fire with God and living a life that totally glorifies Him. however, based on what the promo shows, it would appear that the movie is based very much on the emotions as if it is too charismatic. i am not one to say that the Spirit of God is not moving in the life and hearts of people and churches across america. neither am i saying that one cannot be saved in a charismatic church, i was saved in such church. but in being involved in such a church i think that there is an overabundance of fake emotion. i do not have children, but when i do i want them to be able to have a deep personal walk with the Lord that is much more intimate that the “ups” that the “good” times of life because life is going to be tough and emotions will not be high so they need to be able to approach God and His word and be able to be encouraged.
this being said i have seen the impact of summer church camp can have on kids and it is obvious, most of the time but not always the case, that God shows up in their lives. it takes spiritual maturity to retain and maintain the things that God had revealed to them. It must be deep and not emotional.
jernigan
I am skeptical to say the least. i am not at all against children catching fire with God and living a life that totally glorifies Him. however, based on what the promo shows, it would appear that the movie is based very much on the emotions as if it is too charismatic. i am not one to say that the Spirit of God is not moving in the life and hearts of people and churches across america. neither am i saying that one cannot be saved in a charismatic church, i was saved in such church. but in being involved in such a church i think that there is an overabundance of fake emotion. i do not have children, but when i do i want them to be able to have a deep personal walk with the Lord that is much more intimate that the “ups” that the “good” times of life because life is going to be tough and emotions will not be high so they need to be able to approach God and His word and be able to be encouraged.
this being said i have seen the impact of summer church camp can have on kids and it is obvious, most of the time but not always the case, that God shows up in their lives. it takes spiritual maturity to retain and maintain the things that God had revealed to them. It must be deep and not emotional.
jernigan
not sure how it happened but above comment made by me jernigan
david, all i have to say is this: the mandate of Jesus is clear… it always has been. We are really to share the gospel. i pray that this does not turn christians away from doing that in attempts and trying to be not so “religious” or just like the average evangelical nowadays.
i mean, i just see that tendency in me when i see these previews.
your turn. little miss sunshine?
I gotta admit… it’s a little creepy. And yet, a child’s faith is an amazing thing.
i think it would be good for those kids to get into public schools and public camps once they are grounded in Christ. I think they should eventually break out from their group into the world to be “Jesus friends” instead of “Jesus monsters”.
Perhaps it’s just a cultural thing, but I think it’s possible that kids CAN be used by God dramatically… Let’s not forget that David was 13 years old when he killed Goliath and saved a nation… Could it be that in our cynical age that we don’t give kids the credit they are due?
Maybe the problem is not that the adults are “indoctrinating” the children to do something they don’t understand… Maybe the problem lies in adults who have no faith…
real question is Dave, what do you think???
Hmmm. I am a strong Christian and I totally disagree with this movie. It’s just going to scare people off.
i would have to see the entire film before giving a solid opinion. seems a little over the top to me. i agree these children are our future vut is this really “God will”? Desperate times take desperate measures however are times that desperate yet?
I understand the analogy that the woman is using on how muslims train their children to use hand granades, and she wants something like that for Christians. Well, glad they’re not using handgranades to train these kids, but what does a people on fire for Jesus look like living for the world? has to be more than listening to christian music (no offense), doing dances, and listening to messages (they’re like 10 years old.. they’re not going to have the attention span for you speakers out there). send the older ones there on a missions trip to actually practice out the love of God. organize community outreaches where small kids can be involved in interacting in Christ’s love. I know there can be much good coming out of a christian camp in reconnecting with God, hearing his voice, and being moved by the holy spirit, etc etc. but if this club’s main focus is to train the youth, they need to be taught to act in love to people who desparately need love.
I hate to jump to conclusions about this movie without seeing it but my first impressions leave me worried. I have two concerns, one, are they teaching these children that we (Christians) are at war with the world or with spiritual forces of evil? If we attack the world as if they were the enemy then we defeat the cause of Christ not increase His Kingdom. And two, which is actually hand in hand with one, are they teaching God’s love, grace, mercy and His heart to rescue this world from darkness? I’m with ignorance_apathy we can’t expect to change the world through war, politics of economics. All the laws in the world won’t change people’s hearts (we know that from Jewish history) only the loving, healing, compassionate hand of the Savior will ever really change anyone.
I’m all for teaching our children to love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength and to love their neighbor as their own flesh and I’m all for teaching them scripture so they can be armed for battle against The Enemy but the way this film is described makes it seem that the heart behind this camp is not one of love. I hope that’s not the case.
This topic seems to go hand in hand with a book I’m reading right now that I’d like to recomend, it’s called VELVET ELVIS (repainting the christian faith) by Rob Bell. I’m only a little way into it but I love the concept so far and it’s given me cause to really think about some things I’ve said, done, and believed in the past and question (in a good way) my walk with Christ.
hmmm… well… it all seems.. a bit pentacostal… with and the shaking and trembling after being touched… that just freaks me out… and yea.. they do seem a bit young to have this kind of intensive stuff happening.. and i agree to what b_shakey is saying.. i totally agree. although i dont have kids… but yea.. haahhaha
Jeff
i hope unbelievers don’t get the wrong idea about christianity from this movie. i also hope the kids who go to the camp don’t have these weird, freaky, cultish memories from childhood. and can a six year old really grasp what it means to be a born-again christian? i think not. where’s the shalom in the whole thing? on the upside, at least it’s a film about christianity.
i knew it
i think it’s interesting that the film is opening first in OK and TX, a week before New York and two before the West Coast… that may give us some insight on the motives of the filmmakers.
My first thought was not good. We don’t need to brainwash our kids to be Christians because the Holy Spirit can do it for real. But then I looked more at the info about the camp and it sounds great!
If I understood it correctly, they are starting with born again Christians–kids who’ve already accepted Christ as their savior. And they are teaching them to take a stand and be leaders–not just follow the world. What a great thing! That’s how I’m teaching my children and how I wish I’d been taught.
Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6
I think good call on the Sufjan Stevens!
Hmmm… After watching the trailer, I do have a rather uneasy feeling about this film. Every time a child spoke, it sounded scripted or regurgitated.
I totally disagree with the sociopolitical agenda of right-wing Christendom. I believe it is the church’s, not the government’s, job to take care of the widows, orphans, fatherless, needy, sick, impoverished, etc. Jesus never once interfered with government affairs, even when the government unjustly took Him to the cross to be killed. Remember, the Jews were looking for a political Messiah. They were looking for a military leader. Jesus came as a fragile baby and grew up to keep the company of fishermen, thieves, and prostitutes. He didn’t come as a powerful political figure standing on the conservative platform pushing anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage bills.
Winning this country for Christ will have nothing to do with our political agenda. We have a Christian president now, and unfortunately, he is mocked on a daily basis. The way we win this country is by experiencing our identity through Christ and realizing His Love for us. We are free. Live like it.
“Run from anything that stimulates youthful lust. Follow anything that makes you want to do right. Pursue faith and love and peace, and enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.” 2 Titus 2:22
SORRY THIS IS GAY THIS IS LAMER THAN LAME SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is gay/lamer than lame? The topic? The movie itself? The comments?
Hmmm….wow. This film looks interesting, to say the least. I expected to witness your typical summer camp, but Jesus Camp appears to be far from that. The first movie done by these two women was excellent, but we’ll have to wait and see about this one.
Totally unrelated…David, do you have family playing football for Texas? Tim Crowder… How about that godzillatron? After the ATL, you could have Louie move Passion to Texas and use the stadium.
Life as a sports journalist, I surf the net all day long.
I think that these are children and they need to focus on being children. Not abortion. Not politics. Not anything else except being young. They have to grow up way too fast already, why push this crap on them too? I don’t mind church camps at all… I think they are great and fun and kids can learn tons there. But this? It seems very much like it is based off of pure emotion, and these emotions are being pushed onto the kids as truth. I am about 110% sure that emotion almost never equals truth and vice versa. Hopefully I am wrong in all of this though. I would hate to see this many kids miss out on being young on account of our possible bad ideas and false emotions. There is a lot at stake here.
I don’t know if this is necessarily movie worthy. I’m quite familiar with church camps, considering I’ve attended one since I gained the ability to walk and babble incoherently. I don’t think I would consider my experiences “intense” in the least. I’m almost thinking this could be an unintentional “Saved.” Wouldn’t that be exciting?
I too think it’s scary. Since when has brainwashing been christian? I don’t even believe in God, but I respect other’s opinions on religion and have to say that whoever has the kind of oppinion it’s ok to manipulate children into making the world as one single religion sees it isn’t just crazy, it’s wrong too.
I don’t know why, but the feeling from all the trailers really put a bad taste in my mouth instead of a pleasant one. It just seemed (and I know this has already been said) that the attitude of this camp isn’t to be loving and outreaching as Jesus was, but more of a “we’re going to knock out anyone who isn’t like us.” I don’t want to be too judgemental over something I haven’t seen all of, but I don’t think this movie would lift me up, I think it would make me worried about those kids who may have been influenced by bitter or narrow Christianity.
i dont know.my computer mess up so i cant see what it about…
I used to work at a Christian camp and this kind of camp gives the one like I worked at a bad name. The only difference between the camp I worked at and regular ones pretty much was chapel services, bible studies, and the counselors sharing their testimony. We did evangelize within the camp, but we made darn sure kids knew what it meant and we were ok if all we did was plant the seed and not see them become christians.
um…sounds just like a lot of fire and brimstone.
looks scary
arming our kids for war?
cmon.
I think God created seperation of church and state for a reason. How about training a generation of children to love mercy, do justly, and walk humbly with our God? Maybe do something about the 6,000 people a day dying in Africa? The sex slaves in southeast Asia?
Politics are a dangerous area for Christians to get involved in. Power corrupts…..
maybe christians as a collective are crazy however. Didn’t the crusades teach us anything about military metaphors for Christ? ugh, the idea of a camp like this shows the world that we are out to take them back, rather than let the world engage in the story that’s already written.
i loved your sunsets and sushi, which i bought in malaysia– it was a legitimate copy;
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The first thing I noticed is that the minister of the kids camp is a pentacostal minister, meaning the movie is more than likely going to contain a lot of laying of hands, speaking in tongues, people shaking, etc. Regardless of whether or not you believe in this type of ministry, it generally portrays Christianity in a fanatical, absurd light. I believe this film will not intentionally portray Christianity in a negative light; the film will probably speak for itself. More than likely people will walk away from this film with the same negative feelings they had prior to seeing the film. I went to the website for the camp, and it’s quite interesting. So much of your feelings about this camp deal with your feelings of spiritual gifts. If you believe in things such as speaking in tongues, laying hands, healing, etc. then you probably would think positively of this camp, or at least be less cynical of it. However, if you don’t believe in such things, then you are probably cynical towards it. I will leave you with this: there is a way to minister to young children. I personally have worked at a camp for the past three years with infants to four year olds. It’s a family camp in Tyler, TX. It’s a neat ministry, but you have to be very careful to balance telling the children about Jesus, and scaring them. We personally don’t talk about hell with these ages and chose rather to focus solely on Jesus’ love and desire to know each of them individually. It’s an interesting age group, which calls for a different type of ministry.
Just remember, Jesus did preach a war of love. The way to win people of other faiths is not in war. It’s in love.
ohhh views…
the question is, what do you think?
Looks scary.
sufjan is amazing, but how is he going to pull off all 50 albums? and by the way, i’m reading infinite jest because of you and it’s ridiculousy good- and can’t wait to see you in evansville
Onward Christian Soldiers, marching as to war…
I don’t believe that the filmmakers have the proper perspective to do justice to the subject matter. I does look interesting, but could give evangelical Christianity a bad name.
Okay here’s the thing….I know that even at a young age God can call us out by name and light a passion of Kingdom purpose inside us. I know because that’s what He did for me at the age of 7. But here’s the hang up….at that age I only knew that God loved me….and that He personally and intimately told me that I was special and unique. He didn’t give me a political agenda or responsibility. At the age of 7 He knew that there was no way that my little mind or heart could even comprehend such a task or calling. Even at the age of 12 or 13, 14 or 15 for that matter….these young people can not fully comprehend what it is that these adults are telling them they “should” be doing. Each person’s calling is unique and individually ordained by God himself. There is only ONE calling that all of us Christians have that we are ALL obligated to answer…”Go ye therefore into all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” We all are included in this one calling….no one is exempt from sharing the command to evangalize. Now, on one hand God has called each of us to more specific regions and avenues to do so. George Bush is fulfilling the call that God has on his life to lead America in a godly fashion just as best as he can. You, Dave Crowder, are fulfilling the call that God has on your life to worship along side of thousands and thousands of other Christians in manor of leadership. I, Libby Watford and fulfilling the call that God has given me to be the very best wife I can be to my husband who is a Campus Minister at a Christian University. God has not called all of us to live within the political arena. Our citizenship is in HEAVEN not America. Don’t get me wrong…I love America and I am very proud to be an American and I will fight for what is right and stand against what is wrong. But ultimately…..what does it matter? All Christians from every nation, tribe, and tongue….their citizenship is in heaven. SO shouldn’t we be fighting THAT battle…the battle that means life or death to human souls….stronger than ANY political battle? These little ones…they need to know that ‘yes’ it is their responsibility to stand for all Biblical principles and against anything that goes against the Word. But to strap them with such huge political expectationsis just wrong.
I have to say that the thing that possibly disturbs me the most about this movie is the “us against them” mentality, as if Christianity is about which side wins by getting the most recruits and building the biggest army…how does that show faith in God’s ability to transform lives through love and grace, which is what the gospel is really about… I agree with nuturing a love for Christ and evengelism at a young age but this camp, in my opinion, is encouraging a separatist mind-set.
i’ve always been envious of children who are so spiritually mature at such a young age. physically developmentally speaking, elementary school children can understand abstract concepts if they try hard enough. and the holy spirit is definately at work in them if they are able to break down a scriptural passage and bring in many great insights to adults like me.
however, i’m in general agreement with some people where this movie seems to show an ‘attack’ mentality than a ‘love’ mentality. i remember as a child, even though i had more biblical knowledge than most children, i didn’t love. knowledge without love puffs up.
of course we are to hate sin with a passion, but we also are to love people and not wear cammo uniforms and preach fire and brimstone. we should be speaking the truth in love.
also, i don’t see the people in this film referring to scriptural passages. this is what scares me. if they are just mentioning to their children what they think the children should be doing without showing scriptural evidence, then they are brainwashing and making some sort of cult in a sense. that is my concern
It scares me.
hmmm…well the idea is certainly interesting and is good that someone is thinking about showing what Christians actually do behind camp/church doors. HOWEVER, if there is no explanation for the various “rituals,” I think the majority (even some mainline denominations) will throw-off on the film as a “holy-roller” flick. I think for a first-film of its type, the trailer definitely comes across militant…no so much love, education and relationship described by Jesus.
Outside of biblical critique…I think the film is also acting as an equator of Christian and Republican. Not so much into that! God definitely transcently multi-partisan governmental thought…and most definitely bi-partisan USA! And what about ethnicity? The film and promo pics are white! The directors are white…and even in their Boys of Baracka…the films failure was in the portrayal of white heroines…BLAH! I don’t think a single style of evangelical Christianity is appropriate to the global body of Christ (and i think persecuted Christians in other countries are definitely evangelical).
That’s just my thoughts at this point in time…i’ll be researching…discussing and welcome feedback…always searching for the absolute truth…Jesus!
i love sufjan stevens. but i love you too.
it’s bs…
they’re not giving kids a choice… or rather, a chance… theyre sheltered from the world theyre being sent out to conquer, not having ANY idea what theyre up against… satan’ll chew em up pretty quick…
if you want to make kids on fire for Christ, show them what it means to be lost and hopeless and dead without Him… tory said she could “care less about lindsay or britney”… well, if you truly believe what you say, you beileve those 2 need God even MORE than the the people theyre corrupting… to say you could care less about them means you think there is no hope… that doesnt sound like the God i know…
indoctrinating kids from youth doesnt work… they need to come to the decision on their own, with their own reasons… you get either a hilary faye (character from the movie: “saved!”), or someone who will fall because they lack a base for their faith… God wants more than that…
we need kids to be free to choose… if they dont choose Him, then thats ok, theyve at least had the CHANCE… if they do, they will be stronger than you could imagine…
I don’t like it. The movie makers seem to have an agenda against Christianity, but the case study seems even more disturbing. It looks like a classic example of what got evangelical Christians branded as the “religious right” in the first place: the faulty belief that we can institute Christian morality from the top down, that is, through conservative political leadership, instead of simply engaging culture like we’re supposed to be doing. The camp looks like it could be the training ground for future members of the 700 Club.
wrong. just wrong.
I was “saved” when I was 5 too, but it took me until I was 16 to actually develop a personal relationship with Christ, a choice that I made on my own because I wanted it. I just can’t realistically see 8-10 year olds preaching the word of Christ like they have experience. Nice thought, in theory I suppose.
hm…this is definitely interesting and…thought provoking.
jesus is definitely coming back, and i believe that he is raising up a generation of people for himself. yet, part of me don’t know what to think of the trailer and the movie itself. part of me thinks…do these kids really know what they believe in? or is it all an emotional high? jesus can definitely work in 6 yr-olds, but i might not by that what this movie presents is the only way that he will work.
that breaks my heart at the approach.
the Lord has not called us to LIVE for Him. how shall we live if we are focused on dying for Him? dying is mere circumstance. we should focus on life so we can therefore bring life to others. -sam
4 one your web site is gay and 4 to if you are cathlic or what ever you wouldn’t be saying i mean tpying gay cause you’ll make a sin oh yea but you would probly pray 2 jesus and he would 4 give you how sweet little boy!
so i specifically tried to find this entry again b/c i remember you did mention this documentary on this blog (yes, i am commenting 2 years later).
in my US history class today, we talked about the second great awakening and my teacher showed us the first 10 minutes of this film to show us what a “modern depiction” of the second great awakening was. i was quite disturbed by the opening of the charasmatic pentacostal church (after the radio commentaries). what bothered me the most was the horrid speaking of tounges by the children.
if anything at all, this film brings a disturbing reality to what churches who claim they are “saving souls for Christ” but condemns all who can’t speak in tounges to be non-christians.
Comments (119)
first comment…
second! looks interesting…..
third… looks cool. similar to what ive been wanting to put together…
it’s interesting to see how Christians are indoctrinated at young ages to live for Christ without truly understanding what being a Christian is – it is also interesting to note that this is how other religious parents recruit their kids to become killers of Christians in third world countries – the indocrination of faith at young ages is very powerful.
thats interesting
I like that the kids are so dedicated but not sure what this film is trying to portray about Christian culture, it makes me think this film will be another one portraying how people think christians are crazy.
a little bit scary… heavy indoctrination seems like brain washing- I know I went to Word of Life for many years, and mostly loved it, but at times they yelled fire and hell and brimstone and scared kids into repenting. Now if there’s followup, maybe that approach is ok sometimes… but it wasn’t always. and the way they make it sound like an army makes it sound like it’s an approach by too much force and not enough trusting in God to do His will His way not ours… I don’t know, maybe I’m being too judgemental! lol
oh i am : P
i for one do not agree with this movie. sure, i haven’t seen it, but from what i’ve seen from the trailers on the site, this “camp” kinda scares me. that lady wants our kids “committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as they are to Islam.” the whole program seems geared to a militant theme than anything else. she alludes to them arming kids with grenades, so she arms kids with bibles…? exactly for what purpose? to what end? is this camp to train kids to use heavy-handed tactics for political/socioeconomic goals?
i hope and pray to God that this is not what this camp is soley about.
will download.
I think the idea is awesome, but I think I’ll wait till I see the film to decide
sounds like a good idea….if it has the right amount of moderation….im with the guy above….sounds kindof like brain washing….but on a more serious note – if sufjan is really gonna get to all fifty states, he shouldnt be wasting time making excerpts of the illinois album….i mean times running out…
[joshie]
bad idea.
simplythejosh you are right about sufjan. but on the other hand…if he can write 20 extra songs about freaking illinois, i think he will have no trouble making the last 48 states.
Sufjan Stevens is incredible.
That Jesus Camp.. aye. I don’t really see how that will bring about any good.
i am skeptical, especially considering who the directors are. this kind of scare-tactics-indoctrination is not what kids need to be taught — they need to be taught the gospel and grace.
i want my boys to find God in their own way. we share who God is to us, and what faith is. they so want to please me and their Dad, i wouldn’t want to put them in a position where they feel that obedience to us means following a program, especally where faith is concerned. i don’t think that they have the wisdom, and spiritual understanding to be a soldier yet, though they are forthcoming with the truth with their friends. i think this mandate to these young ones is a bit premature.
not sure what I think yet
you guys are just jealous that my state gets extra attention from sufjan.
on the movie…i dunno…this camp looks a little intense. when did christianity become about indoctrination and about polarization? i wasn’t aware jesus came down to gather his loyalists for war. he came to reach the sick, not the healthy. if this camp is really like the trailer makes it appear…then it’s just wrong. i’m sure the camp has all the best intentions…but…it just rubs me wrong all over.
we don’t need to change the world through a “war,” we don’t need to change the world through politics and economics. we need to change the world by going outside our comfort zone and just loving someone else and sharing god’s love with them. it’s really that simple.
aaah. the sweet sound of right-wing charismania…
I think as Christians we need to stop living on the war model…Jesus taught about love as the way to reach the people. Just as it is frustrating for most Muslims to see the militant extremists give their faith an awful face to the rest of the world, this disturbs the heck out of me.
thats different…
I think this Jesus Camp movie could be a good idea in theory. However, I feel like there are too many of us who genuinely want to try and change the common perception of Christians (“God’s army”. Christians-the people who are really good at leaving others out and judging them. the authors of the us vs. them mentality) to what it is supposed to be….loving to ALL people and living out the gospel the way Jesus said was the way to live it out. I hate to say it, but I think this movie may be another back-step for those of us who want to progress. To equate ourselves with the people in Palestine by saying that “their kids are learning how to throw bombs. we better get our kids ready for war too” is simply ignorant. Christ preached of a war of love. He did not advocate persuasion or gimmicks to get folks to follow Him. He was straight up. Another thing He never, ever did was segregate people. His group of disciples were a rag-tag group of guys who had no clue about Christ’s power and goals, really. They followed Him because they knew it was right. They met with people who hated them, people from their home town, people with different skin colors and maybe even different views. For us to say “Ok…either you’re with us or you’re not. Right now!” is ridiculous. What if the people are taking a minute to step back and really examine Jesus? What if the Spirit is working on them at the present time? Are we rushing the Spirit by having this panic-y mentality? Also, should we have a militant mentality? I think not. I think our mentality should be love and grace to all people….functioning in relationships we build with people of all skin colors, views, wallet sizes on the concrete truth that Christ loves them and wants to know them where they are. I wish someone would make a film about the overwhelming love that one community of believers shows to another group of people who didn’t ask for help but were in dire need of it. A group of people who feel loved and comfortable around Christ-followers….a group of people who don’t feel invaded upon. That’s sort of how I felt from watching this trailer. Helping people. Loving people. Preaching the true gospel. That would be much more helpful for the kingdom of God, in my opinion, than “Jesus Camp”.
hmm…
what DO i think?
I need to know God more and more…know who He is, understand His character, seek to be obedient to Him, love Him and others like He loves me (as if that were possible). I need to know what He wants me to do…I need to fulfill His desires for my life. I need to serve Him. I need to worship Him, glorify Him. I need to do that because it’s my purpose in life. I need to do that because Jesus sacrificed His life for mine. I need to do that because I accepted His gift of grace by faith.
If I try to do those things as they apply to every aspect of my life, I believe my children will follow. I think what Jesus Camp is trying to do is maybe a little scary if it involves 6 year olds…but without knowing the leader’s heart, and the hearts of the children, I can’t really say if it’s good or bad. My point is…I wouldn’t send my kids to something like that. As they get older and independent they can (and do) make their own decisions on how and if they will serve our Lord. Meanwhile I’ll try to provide an example of what God’s grace represents, and guide them as a loving Christian parent should (in my opinion) and trust God’s Holy Spirit to be their ever-present leader after they accept what Jesus did for them.
DC – the offer still stands if you want to park your rig out at our 3.4 acre property in the country when you visit Boise in Sept. :)
33But if anyone denies me here on earth, I will deny that person before my Father in heaven. 34″Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, I came to bring a sword. 35I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Matthew 10:33-35, NLT)
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; (Ephesians 6:10-16, ESV)
..sounds like war to me..
the movie seems a bit crazy. but maybe it was just all the spooky music in the background on the website. i think that this will either show people what is so amazing about being a christian or completely freak them out. let’s hope for the first.
considering that this camp is attempting ‘to bring America back to Christ’ when it was never found by Him is pretty crazy talk. This is an attempt for a Christian nation, which won’t happen until Christ returns. In other words, a good idea gone bad.
i wish ic ould watch it – how come it won’t ocme to vegas?
what do YOU think about it? that’s what we all want to know.
Hmm…I believe that verse, “A little child shall lead them.”
Yet, the ways kids usually teach us are through their natural honesty and such–not through trained methods. Do 6-year-olds even have the mind to comprehend things like prophecy, much less lead in it?
okay. i watched the videos and i need to edit my comment. this looks scary and, well, wrong.
Looks neat – nice CD by the way.
But I haven’t seen the videos yet, and the person above me looks a little scared. So I’ll watch them and comment again later.
I think that it is a good cause! As long as it is taught a true Christian way then I don’t see a problem w/ it. “Train up a child in the way it should go.” Habits are hard to break and this is a good habit…. Jesus.
B
Seems like a good principle, but they seem surprisingly lacking in joy.
I agree with alexalexalex1
so it’s not really playing everywhere…too bad
“it is also interesting to note that this is how other religious parents recruit their kids to become killers of Christians in third world countries “
by some guy named dacopenhagen.
one of the first comments on this blog.
indoctrination is bad, sir, because it teaches people that people in middle eastern countries-especially those claiming the religion of islam-are hellbent on killing christians.
the evil of indoctrination is that we’re actually killing THEM.
dave, as to what i think of the movie.
i don’t like the war metaphor,
but i think the war against the enemy will be won
in teaching children love and mercy and justice,
not marginalism for those of different backgrounds.
bad idea.
christians need to quit fighting for legalism and political power.
the losing the “war” against complacency and hate
by trying to hurdle their socioeconomic hindrances in society.
clint
I don’t know how I feel about this, but I don’t see how much good can come from it… and I agree with dacopen about how indoctrination at young ages can be a very powerful, yet dangerous thing…
It’s kinda scary. Jesus is lord of the world. Not of america. It almost seemed like they were rallying an army against all the other religions in the world. The last time that happened was during the crusades. I’m split.
I think on September 15 I’m going to have to drive up I-35 to pay a little visit to the Magnolia.
Craig.
I love B movies.
I realize that you are a busy guy and probly don’t have time to answer this, but it’s worth a shot. I am a senior in high school and and i am going to to lead woship when i get out. How did you get started leading worship? Do you have any advice?
Jesus was never about jihad or war… it was about love
hey David… crowder… i saw the trailer for this movie and i don’t know what to think of it. cuz when was the last time you saw some kids so crazy for Jesus. it does seem a bit extreme, but Jesus is extreme. and this whole program seems like AAAAH!!! CHOOSE OR DIE!!!! but Jesus is about love… so its like hmm… not sure.
didn’t get chance to read EVERY comment left here…so i might be repeating someone. but i think this movie takes on a more aggressive approach…honestly, i think it’s in danger of affirming the notion that christians are crazy and extreme. i’m kinda curious as to “why” the movie was made. i mean, if it was done for evangelical purposes, it might not do too well. even for me, being a christian, the trailer and the sound bites sorta rub me the wrong way. i’m all for the young generation being convicted and committed to live a life for God, but i don’t know…these kids scare me. haha…no, really, they kinda do.
well, we’ll see how it all plays out.
huh……interesting.
I’m astounded at the “Christian Right” and their obsession with influence through government, which was something Jesus seemed to care nothing about.
I live on the University of Houston Campus, and after seeing the trailer to this movie I am inspired to do a documentary on what turns college-aged students away from church. Or Christianity in general. Of course, the obvious answer is the amount of hypocrites … but during the past 3 years in college, i feel that it’s more. If i were to put the documentary on Youtube, i wonder if DCB would put it on their website.
i don’t think Jesus was a political leader. nor do i think politics, laws, and other such things are going to change people’s hearts.
wow that is interesting…watching the trailor reminded me of the religious network channels where men are up there screaming and everyone in the crowd is too…it makes me doubt that its authentic…but who am i to judge that
wow, at first glance without looking farther than the first page on the site it looks ok than when looking into it it looks as though its a little exctreme. one of the girls was quoted saying at age 11 she feels that the only churches GOd goes to are the kind that shout and are loud and say amen…and also the radio guy says they teach george bush to be a holy man?
I think that is a fantastic album, and Sufjan Stevens folks my face off.
Crowder – when is the next cd coming out? We need more music. I’ve worn out all your old ones.
growing up is an indoctrination – most kids will either belive what their parents do, or rebel and go totally opposite. may as well teach kids the truth.
this movie will be hugely provocative though
kinda scares me.
i think that a house divided cannot stand. most Christians these days will split a church over the color of the pew cushions. i don’t know why people even begin to wonder what makes others dislike Christianity. when we learn that all Christians are to follow Christ rather than bicker with each other about how Baptists are right or Pentecostals are right or anything else, maybe then we can make a little headway. all this arguing about whether a movie is of God or not and all this judging that for ourselves is a bit ridiculous. we’re all part of the body of Christ, but yet we fight all these wars against ourselves about theology and doctrines. “turn your eyes upon Jesus; look full in His wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace.”
14Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; (Hebrews 12:14-15, ESV)
das crazy. I don’t know how much of what is going on is the Spirit and how much of it is emotion. Having worked at a Christian camp for 2 years, we tend to want to engage the spiritual side of things before we engage the kids’ emotions…because we all know how many childhood commitments were “in the moment.” We’ll just have to wait and see…
it sounds eerily similar to the Taliban. I was touched by the display of emotions in it – I remember how expansive my emotions were as a child. they were raw and undeveloped, blurred with reality. I can see that being a problem for them in the future. thanks for posting this – you’re my new source for current events in Christian culture.
– julie
One of the lines that especially struck me was “they are not only preparing for Jesus to come back, but to take back America for Christ.”
Did Christ ask us to take back America for Him? Does he want America? Ok, I am just kinda being funny, but so many times we think we know what God has in mind when perhaps we haven’t spent enough time with Him to know or haven’t even asked.
In Micah it says “God has commanded for me to do what is good, show mercy and to walk humbly with Him.”
I am still working on this, when I have that down, I will see where he wants me to go next.
This looks really good and really interesting. Im really looking forward to it. God Bless
This. . . scares me more than seeing planes flying into buildings – christians sinking to the level of guerilla, islamo-fascists tactics.
I am skeptical to say the least. i am not at all against children catching fire with God and living a life that totally glorifies Him. however, based on what the promo shows, it would appear that the movie is based very much on the emotions as if it is too charismatic. i am not one to say that the Spirit of God is not moving in the life and hearts of people and churches across america. neither am i saying that one cannot be saved in a charismatic church, i was saved in such church. but in being involved in such a church i think that there is an overabundance of fake emotion. i do not have children, but when i do i want them to be able to have a deep personal walk with the Lord that is much more intimate that the “ups” that the “good” times of life because life is going to be tough and emotions will not be high so they need to be able to approach God and His word and be able to be encouraged.
this being said i have seen the impact of summer church camp can have on kids and it is obvious, most of the time but not always the case, that God shows up in their lives. it takes spiritual maturity to retain and maintain the things that God had revealed to them. It must be deep and not emotional.
jernigan
I am skeptical to say the least. i am not at all against children catching fire with God and living a life that totally glorifies Him. however, based on what the promo shows, it would appear that the movie is based very much on the emotions as if it is too charismatic. i am not one to say that the Spirit of God is not moving in the life and hearts of people and churches across america. neither am i saying that one cannot be saved in a charismatic church, i was saved in such church. but in being involved in such a church i think that there is an overabundance of fake emotion. i do not have children, but when i do i want them to be able to have a deep personal walk with the Lord that is much more intimate that the “ups” that the “good” times of life because life is going to be tough and emotions will not be high so they need to be able to approach God and His word and be able to be encouraged.
this being said i have seen the impact of summer church camp can have on kids and it is obvious, most of the time but not always the case, that God shows up in their lives. it takes spiritual maturity to retain and maintain the things that God had revealed to them. It must be deep and not emotional.
jernigan
not sure how it happened but above comment made by me
jernigan
david, all i have to say is this: the mandate of Jesus is clear… it always has been. We are really to share the gospel. i pray that this does not turn christians away from doing that in attempts and trying to be not so “religious” or just like the average evangelical nowadays.
i mean, i just see that tendency in me when i see these previews.
your turn. little miss sunshine?
I gotta admit… it’s a little creepy. And yet, a child’s faith is an amazing thing.
i think it would be good for those kids to get into public schools and public camps once they are grounded in Christ. I think they should eventually break out from their group into the world to be “Jesus friends” instead of “Jesus monsters”.
Perhaps it’s just a cultural thing, but I think it’s possible that kids CAN be used by God dramatically… Let’s not forget that David was 13 years old when he killed Goliath and saved a nation… Could it be that in our cynical age that we don’t give kids the credit they are due?
Maybe the problem is not that the adults are “indoctrinating” the children to do something they don’t understand… Maybe the problem lies in adults who have no faith…
real question is Dave, what do you think???
Hmmm. I am a strong Christian and I totally disagree with this movie. It’s just going to scare people off.
i would have to see the entire film before giving a solid opinion. seems a little over the top to me. i agree these children are our future vut is this really “God will”? Desperate times take desperate measures however are times that desperate yet?
I understand the analogy that the woman is using on how muslims train their children to use hand granades, and she wants something like that for Christians. Well, glad they’re not using handgranades to train these kids, but what does a people on fire for Jesus look like living for the world? has to be more than listening to christian music (no offense), doing dances, and listening to messages (they’re like 10 years old.. they’re not going to have the attention span for you speakers out there). send the older ones there on a missions trip to actually practice out the love of God. organize community outreaches where small kids can be involved in interacting in Christ’s love.
I know there can be much good coming out of a christian camp in reconnecting with God, hearing his voice, and being moved by the holy spirit, etc etc. but if this club’s main focus is to train the youth, they need to be taught to act in love to people who desparately need love.
I hate to jump to conclusions about this movie without seeing it but my first impressions leave me worried. I have two concerns, one, are they teaching these children that we (Christians) are at war with the world or with spiritual forces of evil? If we attack the world as if they were the enemy then we defeat the cause of Christ not increase His Kingdom. And two, which is actually hand in hand with one, are they teaching God’s love, grace, mercy and His heart to rescue this world from darkness? I’m with ignorance_apathy we can’t expect to change the world through war, politics of economics. All the laws in the world won’t change people’s hearts (we know that from Jewish history) only the loving, healing, compassionate hand of the Savior will ever really change anyone.
I’m all for teaching our children to love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength and to love their neighbor as their own flesh and I’m all for teaching them scripture so they can be armed for battle against The Enemy but the way this film is described makes it seem that the heart behind this camp is not one of love. I hope that’s not the case.
This topic seems to go hand in hand with a book I’m reading right now that I’d like to recomend, it’s called VELVET ELVIS (repainting the christian faith) by Rob Bell. I’m only a little way into it but I love the concept so far and it’s given me cause to really think about some things I’ve said, done, and believed in the past and question (in a good way) my walk with Christ.
hmmm… well… it all seems.. a bit pentacostal… with and the shaking and trembling after being touched… that just freaks me out… and yea.. they do seem a bit young to have this kind of intensive stuff happening.. and i agree to what b_shakey is saying.. i totally agree. although i dont have kids… but yea.. haahhaha
Jeff
i hope unbelievers don’t get the wrong idea about christianity from this movie. i also hope the kids who go to the camp don’t have these weird, freaky, cultish memories from childhood. and can a six year old really grasp what it means to be a born-again christian? i think not. where’s the shalom in the whole thing? on the upside, at least it’s a film about christianity.
i knew it
i think it’s interesting that the film is opening first in OK and TX, a week before New York and two before the West Coast… that may give us some insight on the motives of the filmmakers.
My first thought was not good. We don’t need to brainwash our kids to be Christians because the Holy Spirit can do it for real. But then I looked more at the info about the camp and it sounds great!
If I understood it correctly, they are starting with born again Christians–kids who’ve already accepted Christ as their savior. And they are teaching them to take a stand and be leaders–not just follow the world. What a great thing! That’s how I’m teaching my children and how I wish I’d been taught.
Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6
I think good call on the Sufjan Stevens!
Hmmm… After watching the trailer, I do have a rather uneasy feeling about this film. Every time a child spoke, it sounded scripted or regurgitated.
I totally disagree with the sociopolitical agenda of right-wing Christendom. I believe it is the church’s, not the government’s, job to take care of the widows, orphans, fatherless, needy, sick, impoverished, etc. Jesus never once interfered with government affairs, even when the government unjustly took Him to the cross to be killed. Remember, the Jews were looking for a political Messiah. They were looking for a military leader. Jesus came as a fragile baby and grew up to keep the company of fishermen, thieves, and prostitutes. He didn’t come as a powerful political figure standing on the conservative platform pushing anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage bills.
Winning this country for Christ will have nothing to do with our political agenda. We have a Christian president now, and unfortunately, he is mocked on a daily basis. The way we win this country is by experiencing our identity through Christ and realizing His Love for us. We are free. Live like it.
“Run from anything that stimulates youthful lust. Follow anything that makes you want to do right. Pursue faith and love and peace, and enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts.” 2 Titus 2:22
SORRY THIS IS GAY THIS IS LAMER THAN LAME SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is gay/lamer than lame? The topic? The movie itself? The comments?
Hmmm….wow. This film looks interesting, to say the least. I expected to witness your typical summer camp, but Jesus Camp appears to be far from that. The first movie done by these two women was excellent, but we’ll have to wait and see about this one.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2562170
Totally unrelated…David, do you have family playing football for Texas? Tim Crowder… How about that godzillatron? After the ATL, you could have Louie move Passion to Texas and use the stadium.
Life as a sports journalist, I surf the net all day long.
I think that these are children and they need to focus on being children. Not abortion. Not politics. Not anything else except being young. They have to grow up way too fast already, why push this crap on them too? I don’t mind church camps at all… I think they are great and fun and kids can learn tons there. But this? It seems very much like it is based off of pure emotion, and these emotions are being pushed onto the kids as truth. I am about 110% sure that emotion almost never equals truth and vice versa.
Hopefully I am wrong in all of this though. I would hate to see this many kids miss out on being young on account of our possible bad ideas and false emotions. There is a lot at stake here.
I don’t know if this is necessarily movie worthy. I’m quite familiar with church camps, considering I’ve attended one since I gained the ability to walk and babble incoherently. I don’t think I would consider my experiences “intense” in the least. I’m almost thinking this could be an unintentional “Saved.” Wouldn’t that be exciting?
I too think it’s scary. Since when has brainwashing been christian? I don’t even believe in God, but I respect other’s opinions on religion and have to say that whoever has the kind of oppinion it’s ok to manipulate children into making the world as one single religion sees it isn’t just crazy, it’s wrong too.
I don’t know why, but the feeling from all the trailers really put a bad taste in my mouth instead of a pleasant one. It just seemed (and I know this has already been said) that the attitude of this camp isn’t to be loving and outreaching as Jesus was, but more of a “we’re going to knock out anyone who isn’t like us.” I don’t want to be too judgemental over something I haven’t seen all of, but I don’t think this movie would lift me up, I think it would make me worried about those kids who may have been influenced by bitter or narrow Christianity.
i dont know.my computer mess up so i cant see what it about…
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I used to work at a Christian camp and this kind of camp gives the one like I worked at a bad name. The only difference between the camp I worked at and regular ones pretty much was chapel services, bible studies, and the counselors sharing their testimony. We did evangelize within the camp, but we made darn sure kids knew what it meant and we were ok if all we did was plant the seed and not see them become christians.
um…sounds just like a lot of fire and brimstone.
looks scary
arming our kids for war?
cmon.
I think God created seperation of church and state for a reason. How about training a generation of children to love mercy, do justly, and walk humbly with our God? Maybe do something about the 6,000 people a day dying in Africa? The sex slaves in southeast Asia?
Politics are a dangerous area for Christians to get involved in. Power corrupts…..
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maybe christians as a collective are crazy however. Didn’t the crusades teach us anything about military metaphors for Christ? ugh, the idea of a camp like this shows the world that we are out to take them back, rather than let the world engage in the story that’s already written.
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The first thing I noticed is that the minister of the kids camp is a pentacostal minister, meaning the movie is more than likely going to contain a lot of laying of hands, speaking in tongues, people shaking, etc. Regardless of whether or not you believe in this type of ministry, it generally portrays Christianity in a fanatical, absurd light. I believe this film will not intentionally portray Christianity in a negative light; the film will probably speak for itself. More than likely people will walk away from this film with the same negative feelings they had prior to seeing the film. I went to the website for the camp, and it’s quite interesting. So much of your feelings about this camp deal with your feelings of spiritual gifts. If you believe in things such as speaking in tongues, laying hands, healing, etc. then you probably would think positively of this camp, or at least be less cynical of it. However, if you don’t believe in such things, then you are probably cynical towards it. I will leave you with this: there is a way to minister to young children. I personally have worked at a camp for the past three years with infants to four year olds. It’s a family camp in Tyler, TX. It’s a neat ministry, but you have to be very careful to balance telling the children about Jesus, and scaring them. We personally don’t talk about hell with these ages and chose rather to focus solely on Jesus’ love and desire to know each of them individually. It’s an interesting age group, which calls for a different type of ministry.
Just remember, Jesus did preach a war of love. The way to win people of other faiths is not in war. It’s in love.
ohhh views…
the question is, what do you think?
Looks scary.
sufjan is amazing, but how is he going to pull off all 50 albums? and by the way, i’m reading infinite jest because of you and it’s ridiculousy good- and can’t wait to see you in evansville
Onward Christian Soldiers, marching as to war…
I don’t believe that the filmmakers have the proper perspective to do justice to the subject matter. I does look interesting, but could give evangelical Christianity a bad name.
Okay here’s the thing….I know that even at a young age God can call us out by name and light a passion of Kingdom purpose inside us. I know because that’s what He did for me at the age of 7. But here’s the hang up….at that age I only knew that God loved me….and that He personally and intimately told me that I was special and unique. He didn’t give me a political agenda or responsibility. At the age of 7 He knew that there was no way that my little mind or heart could even comprehend such a task or calling. Even at the age of 12 or 13, 14 or 15 for that matter….these young people can not fully comprehend what it is that these adults are telling them they “should” be doing. Each person’s calling is unique and individually ordained by God himself. There is only ONE calling that all of us Christians have that we are ALL obligated to answer…”Go ye therefore into all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” We all are included in this one calling….no one is exempt from sharing the command to evangalize. Now, on one hand God has called each of us to more specific regions and avenues to do so. George Bush is fulfilling the call that God has on his life to lead America in a godly fashion just as best as he can. You, Dave Crowder, are fulfilling the call that God has on your life to worship along side of thousands and thousands of other Christians in manor of leadership. I, Libby Watford and fulfilling the call that God has given me to be the very best wife I can be to my husband who is a Campus Minister at a Christian University. God has not called all of us to live within the political arena. Our citizenship is in HEAVEN not America. Don’t get me wrong…I love America and I am very proud to be an American and I will fight for what is right and stand against what is wrong. But ultimately…..what does it matter? All Christians from every nation, tribe, and tongue….their citizenship is in heaven. SO shouldn’t we be fighting THAT battle…the battle that means life or death to human souls….stronger than ANY political battle? These little ones…they need to know that ‘yes’ it is their responsibility to stand for all Biblical principles and against anything that goes against the Word. But to strap them with such huge political expectationsis just wrong.
I have to say that the thing that possibly disturbs me the most about this movie is the “us against them” mentality, as if Christianity is about which side wins by getting the most recruits and building the biggest army…how does that show faith in God’s ability to transform lives through love and grace, which is what the gospel is really about… I agree with nuturing a love for Christ and evengelism at a young age but this camp, in my opinion, is encouraging a separatist mind-set.
i’ve always been envious of children who are so spiritually mature at such a young age. physically developmentally speaking, elementary school children can understand abstract concepts if they try hard enough. and the holy spirit is definately at work in them if they are able to break down a scriptural passage and bring in many great insights to adults like me.
however, i’m in general agreement with some people where this movie seems to show an ‘attack’ mentality than a ‘love’ mentality. i remember as a child, even though i had more biblical knowledge than most children, i didn’t love. knowledge without love puffs up.
of course we are to hate sin with a passion, but we also are to love people and not wear cammo uniforms and preach fire and brimstone. we should be speaking the truth in love.
also, i don’t see the people in this film referring to scriptural passages. this is what scares me. if they are just mentioning to their children what they think the children should be doing without showing scriptural evidence, then they are brainwashing and making some sort of cult in a sense. that is my concern
It scares me.
hmmm…well the idea is certainly interesting and is good that someone is thinking about showing what Christians actually do behind camp/church doors. HOWEVER, if there is no explanation for the various “rituals,” I think the majority (even some mainline denominations) will throw-off on the film as a “holy-roller” flick. I think for a first-film of its type, the trailer definitely comes across militant…no so much love, education and relationship described by Jesus.
Outside of biblical critique…I think the film is also acting as an equator of Christian and Republican. Not so much into that! God definitely transcently multi-partisan governmental thought…and most definitely bi-partisan USA! And what about ethnicity? The film and promo pics are white! The directors are white…and even in their Boys of Baracka…the films failure was in the portrayal of white heroines…BLAH! I don’t think a single style of evangelical Christianity is appropriate to the global body of Christ (and i think persecuted Christians in other countries are definitely evangelical).
That’s just my thoughts at this point in time…i’ll be researching…discussing and welcome feedback…always searching for the absolute truth…Jesus!
i love sufjan stevens. but i love you too.
it’s bs…
they’re not giving kids a choice… or rather, a chance… theyre sheltered from the world theyre being sent out to conquer, not having ANY idea what theyre up against… satan’ll chew em up pretty quick…
if you want to make kids on fire for Christ, show them what it means to be lost and hopeless and dead without Him… tory said she could “care less about lindsay or britney”… well, if you truly believe what you say, you beileve those 2 need God even MORE than the the people theyre corrupting… to say you could care less about them means you think there is no hope… that doesnt sound like the God i know…
indoctrinating kids from youth doesnt work… they need to come to the decision on their own, with their own reasons… you get either a hilary faye (character from the movie: “saved!”), or someone who will fall because they lack a base for their faith… God wants more than that…
we need kids to be free to choose… if they dont choose Him, then thats ok, theyve at least had the CHANCE… if they do, they will be stronger than you could imagine…
I don’t like it. The movie makers seem to have an agenda against Christianity, but the case study seems even more disturbing. It looks like a classic example of what got evangelical Christians branded as the “religious right” in the first place: the faulty belief that we can institute Christian morality from the top down, that is, through conservative political leadership, instead of simply engaging culture like we’re supposed to be doing. The camp looks like it could be the training ground for future members of the 700 Club.
wrong. just wrong.
I was “saved” when I was 5 too, but it took me until I was 16 to actually develop a personal relationship with Christ, a choice that I made on my own because I wanted it. I just can’t realistically see 8-10 year olds preaching the word of Christ like they have experience. Nice thought, in theory I suppose.
hm…this is definitely interesting and…thought provoking.
jesus is definitely coming back, and i believe that he is raising up a generation of people for himself. yet, part of me don’t know what to think of the trailer and the movie itself. part of me thinks…do these kids really know what they believe in? or is it all an emotional high? jesus can definitely work in 6 yr-olds, but i might not by that what this movie presents is the only way that he will work.
that breaks my heart at the approach.
the Lord has not called us to LIVE for Him.
how shall we live if we are focused on dying for Him?
dying is mere circumstance.
we should focus on life so we can therefore bring life to others.
-sam
4 one your web site is gay and 4 to if you are cathlic or what ever you wouldn’t be saying i mean tpying gay cause you’ll make a sin oh yea but you would probly pray 2 jesus and he would 4 give you how sweet little boy!
so i specifically tried to find this entry again b/c i remember you did mention this documentary on this blog (yes, i am commenting 2 years later).
in my US history class today, we talked about the second great awakening and my teacher showed us the first 10 minutes of this film to show us what a “modern depiction” of the second great awakening was. i was quite disturbed by the opening of the charasmatic pentacostal church (after the radio commentaries). what bothered me the most was the horrid speaking of tounges by the children.
if anything at all, this film brings a disturbing reality to what churches who claim they are “saving souls for Christ” but condemns all who can’t speak in tounges to be non-christians.
i’m interested in what you think of this film!